Lighting audits as a subset of the energy audits.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on March 24, 2011 at 9:12pm

Fm - substitute Photons for info - those 90 billion e 26 sockets will need to be filled - that will be

done with Solid state lighting products- About  prices- 3 thoughts LED pricing has been going

down & you get a better product each season, next, a $40 lamp may very well come w/ a rebate or

incentive lowering the cost to use it -in Wisc its $25 for a par 38 lamp( prescriptive allowance)

You have heard that incandescents are banned OR SOON WILL BE (2012 -14)  there are many

sockets where Cfls or Esl lamps don't make sense-  at all!                                                                                                                                   Residency not withstanding - ROIs of 3 or 4 seasons happen regularly

 ( ei Casinos, hotels, etc) They really are occuring all over. Also the recession

has in fact been over for awhile. As for hybrid input- those were for provoking thought!

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Permalink Reply by Dave Conna on March 24, 2011 at 10:15pm

Dennis,

 

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I have to agree with Fm - for now the economics of LED lighting for many applications just isn't there yet.  And I am replacing 24 hour lighting and using 20 cents per kWh in my calcs - you can't get much better economics than that.

 

I can justify LED lighting for CFL replacements in most reflector applications but I use integrated motion sensor fluorescent lighting with hi/lo, dimming or program start (for on/off applications) ballasts in most other applications. 

 

The first integrated motion sensor LED lighting I have ever seen was a couple days ago in Home Depot - LED spotlights with an infrared sensor for residential applications.  Nice and bright but $120 for the materials ALONE, not counting labor.  I would love to use motion sensors with LED lighting if I could find a reliable AND affordable product - and I expect there will be some in the near future - but I have yet to see them. 

 

If you have some specific products/manufacturers, please tell us who they are - I want to give my customers the best products I can, within their budgets, of course.

 

Thanks in advance for any info or websites you can provide.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on March 24, 2011 at 10:35pm

 I try and limit my endorsements, I can indicate this any SSL mfg using-

 Ac/LEDs instead of DC /Leds is on the right track - I always hear - the

price is to high-                                                                                                         Ok - I get the lights at wholesale - sometimes for free, but

as an example a B-10 ( candelabra bulb) : My cost $11 each - using 1.4 watts

not 25 watts, they should last 70,000 hrs not 700 hours like most B-10s,they have a 5 year warranty and are the more cost effective solution- and they dim , have less consequences environmentally and should  last 15 years.

 Then add in rebates/ incentives, they are much cheaper to own!

 

The problem- availabilty and the likelyhood of still better products at lower prices

in 6 months- So I advocate buying 2 or 3 and evaluating their performance!

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Permalink Reply by Dave Conna on March 25, 2011 at 8:40am

Dennis:

 

I have to wonder if you are "limit[ing] your endorsements" because you are using Lights of America products, which I criticized in a previous post.  I write this because the spec you described is identical to an LOA spec - I've seen the exact item and doubt their specs very much.

 

Normally I don't like to trash a company but sometimes their behavior is so egregious that it has to be pointed out.  LOA has a long history of grossly overstating bulb lifetime and lumen output.  I know this from both person experience and as a former job as a technical support person with a national energy efficient lighting distributor.

 

LOA's reputation for poor quality and overstated lumen output is very well known in the industry - Consumer Reports judged their CFLs not acceptable for these 2 reasons in a January 1999 article.  I can only guess that they have been able to stay in business due to utility rebate programs - a sad statement and a real problem with subsidies where quality and performance are not considered.

 

And LOA is not the only company that overstates lumen output.  Those numbers seem much too optimistic compared to the numbers I have seen from major brands like Philips and GE.

 

All that having been said, the higher wattage reflector bulbs and A-19 lamps from reputable manufacturers have efficacies that are similar to CLFs but with considerably longer lifetime, good dimmability and no mercury - all significant benefits.  The reflectors benefit even further from the inherent advantage that LEDs have in reflector applications (that being that the light is directional and thus luminaire efficiencies are much higher than for CFLs in the same application).

 

So be weary about specs and where they come from.  If you are using LOA (or any brands for that matter), pay close attention to lumen maintenance and how long they last.

 

And if I am wrong about the manufacturer of the bulb you use, I would love to know.  I would not consider anything you tell me as a product endorsement but rather an opportunity for me to evaluate something on my own.  I am constantly on the lookout for newer and better products.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on March 25, 2011 at 8:52am

You're joking right - Lights of America - No I don't have any of those in my house,

I have ZERO -cfls, and the only incandescent bulbs are in my oven/

I write LED product reviews - I've been selling - promoting LED use since '95

 

 As a quality maven - I am a huge proponent of LEDs that are top design and

quality. I try to limit my endorsements , I use the kind of quality lighting that

most just can't get.( I am a SSL industry insider) -                                        My opinion of Cfls is that

the're like a decaying, bloated corpse- they used to work or have a purpose

but those times are past, bury em and move to the things of the present/ future.

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Permalink Reply by Dave Conna on March 25, 2011 at 9:18am

Good to know, Dennis.

 

But it still begs the questions I asked about the lumen output seeming much too high for the wattage.  Have you checked the numbers - either qualitatively or quantitatively?

 

Also you did not reply to my comment about efficacy not being much better for LEDs vs CFLs.

 

How can I get some samples of these awesome LEDs?

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