Are efficient LED bulbs worth the price?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bob Blanchette on December 6, 2012 at 1:35pm

IMHO what needs to happen is FIXTURE redesign. Lets design fixtures that can only use LEDs or CFLs and open up tons of design possibilities. Trying to make all fixtures take A19 bulbs and then trying to optimize LED/CFL for a shape optimized for incandescent is backwards thinking. LED fixtures could be less than 1" think, flush to a wall or ceiling.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 6, 2012 at 1:53pm

Bob-

 Regarding your thoughts on SSL design - I'm going to take a guess that you haven't been

to a LED lighting trade show like LightFair-

 We can exclude musing about cfls & move on to the good stuff- OLEDs the whole subset is

exploding - Do you want 2 mil thick Light sources- we've got 'em ready for early adopters

- anxious for transparemt screens that can illuminate a room - got 'em already

 - How's about foldable OLED - we got those too - the design possibilities are limitless.

 Want wearable - illuminated fabrics -got 'em already -- then there are the TFTs now

being used in auto dashboard displays - Coming soon OLETs that blow away OLEDs

performance wise- Screw based luminiares will still be around for a decade but as a

form factor there are already 100's of variantions right now and more coming next week.

 

Those elements you alluded to are already here !

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Permalink Reply by Bob Blanchette on December 6, 2012 at 2:12pm

Now it's just a question as to when they get to a competitive price point. The cool factor of the new designs will add value to buyers, but prices will need to drop for the fixtures to become mainstream.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 6, 2012 at 2:35pm

Bob-

 I've heard the price thing for 5 + years - It's a part of the fun & glamour of the biz ;)

 

2  relevant pricing notes - the Par 38 lamps that used to cost me $95 wholesale are

down to about $28 for OK quality

 

OLEDs - a Megalumen of output from last years

OLED products was $800 next years projected megalumen cost $30 - WOW

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Permalink Reply by Curt Kinder on December 6, 2012 at 4:15pm

The only problem with a move to alternatives other than A19 is the consumer's healthy suspicion of being roped into a particular form factor available from a sole manufacturer. Various pin base and other standards are out there but lamp cost tends to be 3-5x A19 equivalent lamps.

Until a competitively priced widely adopted standard emerges, A19 will live on.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Blanchette on December 6, 2012 at 7:45pm

LEDs should last the life of the fixture, whey even make them removable?

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 6, 2012 at 8:22pm

Bob

 The LEDs - factually won't last forever- the diode might last for 60,000 hrs as the luminiare

might have a lifetime of 8000 hrs due to crappy electrolytic capacitors.

 

There's the issue of color shift due to phosphors bubbling -  caused by thermal issues.

 

You wouldn't want to be stuck with 2013 model yr stuff in perpetual use anyhow, you wouldn't

have been OK with your 2009 phone stapled to your ear. You want to change things up.

 

Or alternately saying  what might seem to be a great product now would not be

the right product then, because the approach WILL change - Using DC in 2015 but

set up for AC upon installation date next year or because of something like the Zhaga standard.

 

 It's just that the evolution is moving at break neck speed - no one should be stuck with

 pedestrian stuff thats on shelves now- mind you it's not bad, in fact its good to decent.

 

- My perspective is biased by constant exposure to stuff thats more advanced

than most "typical " consumers see .

 

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Permalink Reply by Tom Delconte on December 7, 2012 at 4:02am

Thanks for addressing the possible weak electronic parts issue, Dennis. That's why may of us defer to you on this technology. Appreciate the input. t

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Permalink Reply by Curt Kinder on December 7, 2012 at 4:50am

WHOA!  - wait a minute...much of the hype surrounding LED is that they'll greatly outlast CFL and thus have a life cycle cost that overcomes their first cost.

Now you are saying,essentially, that we should plan for early obsolescence of whatever we buy today...there goes the life cycle cost argument.

While I agree that mobile phones don't last, I think that results from a combination of early failure, evolving mission, and marketing that makes a new phone same or cheaper price as replacing battery in a 2 year old phone.

Mobile phones are infinitely more complex and useful than light bulbs. We remain content with our 2007 light bulbs, can opener, tea kettle, toilet seats, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Bob Blanchette on December 8, 2012 at 5:31am

+1 on life cycle of LED's. From an energy savings prospective LED and CFL are really close on lumens per watt. LED does well in low lumen applications, but CFL wins in high lumen applications. Regular 4' T8/T5 lamps destroy both CFL and LED in terms of initial cost and Lumen per watt numbers. LED has a LONG way to go before it gets anywhere near 4' T8/T5's numbers. 4' lamps are dominant in commercial for a reason...

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Permalink Reply by tedkidd on December 7, 2012 at 3:07pm

Long thread.  Short answer maybe people will read.

As with a Prius purchase, how far do you drive?  60,000 miles a year or 6000?

And are you at replacement, because then you just need to justify incremental cost.

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Ackerman on December 13, 2012 at 12:10pm

I've been watching and testing LEDs for several years and can say that, while there is definitely variability both in quality and price, the technology is maturing rapidly. I now use them in 75% of the applications in my house. Yes, in this case I'm playing the early adopter, but it's the way I can learn about them. Surprised that the users of this site would not all feel the same way.

Just today installing track lighting, and using 6W GU-10 LED lamps that are quite comparable with 50W halogens. Three to a fixture, this is real savings even at $20 each. Good color temperature, and if you watch what you're getting, good CRI.

This one example should point out that the bulky heat sinks are old technology. Keep watching, and start tyring them out! One source I'd recommend (can I do that here?) is Lemnis Lighting, who makes a great product and is bringing the price down a LOT. Great to see -- support this industry. BTW, in the Home Depot lighting aisle, there is ALWAYS a crowd in front of the LED display -- so consumers are very interested. CFLs are subsidized, and hopefully this will soon extend to LEDs.

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