Are efficient LED bulbs worth the price?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bud Poll on December 13, 2012 at 12:33pm

Hi Bruce,

There are places and people where LEDs are already a good fit.  But in the home of an energy auditor it is a no brainer.  Even if we have to remove older technology in a year or two to test the latest products, this is what we do and we need to have hands on experience with it.  When you replace those old heat sink versions, donate them to a worthy cause and take the deduction. They will have another 30 years left in them and a $30 deduction will come close to paying for tomorrows lamps.

Bud

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 13, 2012 at 1:30pm

Bud/Bruce

Bud as always, a great answer -

Bruce , there are a variety of rebates + incentives & other

inducements - sadly not all apply for residential customers .

In many states utilty rebates are readily

available - not much of a hassle involved there.

 

THe 179D deductian will be available though 13 (thats $.60 per sq ft - if you meet all pre reqs)

Some entitities give grants for early adoption  - BUT

 

Many of us in the SSL industry are looking forward to a time when we collectively

"kick off the training wheels"  the time will be here soon when even for an average consumer will be OK with the price points - probably 2 yrs or less - and finally

 to address how fast developments come in SSL I can list 8 significant  advances

since NOV. Its truly amazing !!

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Permalink Reply by Curt Kinder on December 13, 2012 at 7:19pm

It is not legal to deduct the original cost of a donated item. Deduction is limited to its cash value at the time of donation

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Permalink Reply by Bud Poll on December 13, 2012 at 7:45pm

Correction noted Curt.  It was just a spontaneous suggestion, but there would be many charitable places to send those old lamps if one needed space to begin testing the next generation and charity can be far more rewarding than a deduction :).  For our seniors out there it would be heart stopping to spend $20 on a light bulb.  They (I) remember when, yada, yada ...  I have trouble getting some seniors to switch to a $2 CFL even when it is one that stays on 50% of the time, it's still working.  You can be sure that's not all seniors as many are still rather sharp.  But others do need help.

Dennis, keep the new information flowing.  I miss your constant updates, especially with the pace of this technology. 

On the technical side Dennis, can you point me to the circuitry inside these LED lamps.  Getting from 120vac to ? volts dc has to be an opportunity for new designs to improve efficiency.  If we provided exactly the supply we needed, what would be the lumens per watt, today and tomorrow?

Bud

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 14, 2012 at 5:52am

Bud

I'll send you a P.M over the weekend for more updated info.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 14, 2012 at 5:08pm

I guess we can end this thread with these salient observations-

Its a very good thing to use kWs in an effective, logical manner.

LED lighting is the best at doing the task at the lowest daily costs all things considered.

SSL technology like phones advances will be ever changing & evolving.

 

And in the 14 days since the original post this iteration of LED lamps from Philips

is already dated- the tri segment is gone - replaced by a better looking , more effective unit using the newer Luxeon T emitter- things move just that fast -

its been 2 weeks- this particular style is old news- a SSL "cycle" is now down to

6- 8 weeks- and the beat goes on

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Permalink Reply by Curt Kinder on December 14, 2012 at 7:57pm

With things changing so quickly, I'll kick back and wait until they stabilize a bit, just as CFLs have.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Delconte on December 17, 2012 at 4:19am

Hello Dennis,

Thanks for the new tech info: Luxeon T . I am not able to purchase one of these yet, so I guess I can continue to test the six L Prize bulbs. In the week I was gone to germany to study Passivhaus, 4 CFLs burn out, and 3 halogen lamps mysteriously went, due to being left on by house sitters. Will report when CR finishes test of L Prize.

Oh, you never want to forget how long a well constructed bulb should last: 110 Year Bulb!

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 17, 2012 at 4:57am

Tom

Could you give your opinion about Philips + their changing the

product substantially ( it will look different for '13 with 10% more

lumen output) is this something that "puts consumers off" ?

 

And on that mysterious lights goin' out thing - I admit it it was me

& my coherts - WE are breaking in to peoples homes and

replacing working incandescents & CFLs with defective ones 

 all over the country while

folks sleep or are out - our sinister intent drive up demand for LED lighting

                 - OK that hasn't happened (yet) -

A different take on CR's LED reports : technically lacking but I'm

glad they are raising awareness-   If the SSL industry awarded the "L" prize with noted flaws then I don't know that a outfit like CR's testing

protocols aren't flawed also - The "L Prize" was kind of rigged-

(Not to knock Philips & their wares) I'm just saying it's like

a college algebra test being formatted and proctered by a grade school

art teacher-- there was a BIG disconnect between what model you're

going by & whats representative of  this months " best in class-"

Final thought: what if 50% of US homes where built like Passivhaus ?

Those are the kind of things I dream about - then I wake up to the

reality of what IS representative of the average US home.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Delconte on December 17, 2012 at 9:07am

Dennis,

I'm all for Philips ramping their curve as quickly as possible! But no one is going to buy them, as long as an incand is 50 cents, and a cfl is 2$ : Lights Out! .

CR is the ONLY unimpeachable lab in the U.S.! They are no longer anything like the old Consumer Union, and test a wide variety of products that people across all income levels are purchasing. They forget to print that. The results are a little slow, for obvious reasons.

My experience with people who live in houses is that they have no concern about energy efficiency, but just want cheap energy prices! And they are getting that now. As the U.S. becomes the largest energy producer, prices are toppling. Watch out for China, though. They will soon become the largest energy user, the largest economy, and take over world security.

Permalink Reply by Adin Maynard on December 20, 2012 at 7:04am

Poor quality CFLs have made people skeptical of LED quality.

I think  everyone (who can afford it) tries one LED  to see if the 'quality of life' benefits outweigh the looooong payback. 

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Permalink Reply by Dennis McCarthy on December 28, 2012 at 7:14pm

 Adin-

2 misconceptions  the cost of SSL products is a twin point 'debate" new lower than ever

costs for a product that should last a decade ( $15- $30 ish is ok ,really) for current stuff-

then there is the aggregate, true daily cost of using a CFL or Incand Vs a LED lamp

that arithmatic really favors SSL !

 

.

 Quality of life  it truly favors 2013 era SSL over anything else when you compare the old

tech lighting to SSL paired w/ lighting controls- SSL is intelligent, CCT / color temp flexibility, theres the

twin settings as per Californa / + ANSI new directives, the ability to reduce getting up on a laddder

to once every decade to change them, just a few of the points of logic for the change.

 

For all phases of customer use  - these points go up against the very limited capabilities of

grand dads lighting products-& to close it out , everyone recalls the misteps by CFL

producers 25 years ago , rest assured that billions are spent on R+D & product refinements

so that same stench won't hurt the SSL producers- yes there is a whole spectrum of quality

but anyone reluctant to switch from old tech lighting to new , contemporary lighting products are

beating  the strawman arguement down. The rationale points truly favor SSL on merit !

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